003: Transcript - Is homework worth the work?

Transcripts

Mar 11

Katierose:

edYou is a podcast by teachers for teachers. We do the hard work so you don't have to digging through the research, covering the big topics and teaching and finding out what that means for us in today's classroom. Hosted by Katierose Deos and Sarah Gilmore edYou brings education research to you and your classroom.

Sarah:

Hi, and welcome to edYou. In this episode we're talking about homework. We're going to be diving into some of the leading research in support of and against assigning homework and then we'll share some research based approaches to help you to do homework in your classroom as effectively as possible. I'm Sarah Gilmore.

Katierose:

and I'm Katierose Deos and this is edYou, bringing education research to you and your classroom.

Sarah:

You know, I was on Twitter the other day and I saw this post that said, "If your child's not yelling, 'that's not the way our teacher taught us to do it'. And you're not yelling, 'Well that's the only way I know how to do it'. Are you even helping your kid with math homework?" And I just wonder, does that ring any bells for you, Katierose?

Katierose:

Well, it's funny that you mentioned that because just today I was walking with my daughter asking her about how school was and how things were going. And I said, if there's anything that you would change about school, what would it be? And the first thing that came out of her was homework and I'm like, what would you, what would you change about homework? She's like, I wouldn't have any. And she really, she, it was, it was just amazed me cause it was the first thing that came to her mind was the homework. And so I think yes it's important and it affects teachers and parents, but really the, the main, the main effect is on the student.

Sarah:

There's been quite a lot of stuff in the media lately about schools that are starting to drop homework not to have it at all. You know, other people who are really arguing for it. A lot of opinion pieces from parents saying what you're saying about the effect that it has on their children outside of school and on their energy levels and on their time. And then other voices that are arguing for it that it really helps. And so it is something that most people, most teachers, most parents, most kids have to deal with. And yet I feel like it's a topic that we don't feel confident that we know whether we should be doing it or how we should be doing it.

Katierose:

It's a piece of education that's very much like lots of other pieces that swing on this huge pendulum back and forth or are cyclical and they just come around and we repackage it and we start doing it again and it comes back around,

Sarah:

It's in, it's out, it's in and out and it's never stopped being like this big topic that teachers and parents and everyone is discussing and not really reaching a conclusion one way or another about whether homework should be in or should be out for the long haul.

Katierose:

One thing that struck me and that also came up in some of the readings is that we as teachers, we really either even been trained in actually how to do it well. You know, in, in teacher training and even when you're at a new school, there's no real support in how can we do this homework that is in the best possible way for our students. What kind of policies are going to be in place outside of amount and outside of quantity.

Sarah:

Yeah. And you would think then from that that there isn't research, but actually there is a huge amount of research that's being done into homework. And I think when we started doing this, we came at it from the perspective of looking at it from very much for and against like I would take for, you would take against and we would see what we could find in the research. And I think that what became clear to us is that there's more consensus than we had really expected, even though there are very different viewpoints out there about homework.

Katierose:

So Sarah, why don't you tell us a little bit about how you were preparing for your fight of for homework.

Sarah:

Well, I started with quite strong opinions, which anybody who actually knows me would not be surprised to hear. But I came into it really already with the belief that homework was pretty pointless and just an unnecessary burden on, on everyone: on the student, on the teacher, on the parents. And I felt like I spent quite a lot of time on Twitter and it would seem like most of Twitter agrees with me that it's a waste of time. And so therefore like why are we even doing, it seemed to me, everybody seems to already agree. Um, therefore I expected the research to agree with that statement, but I was really wrong. So I started out just, you know, Googling on Google scholar, um, and one of the first names that popped up when I was looking into kind of homework and effectiveness was Harris Cooper, professor Harris Cooper of Duke University. And he's been a big name in homework research since the 1980s. So I decided to focus on him. And he is so important in homework research that when people cite a definition of what homework is, it's him that they quote, you know, so he's become such a big name partly because of two really big meta analyses that he did in 1989 and then 2006 and meta analysis for anybody that doesn't know is where a researcher takes a lot of other research that's being done by not necessarily them but other people and uses statistics to try and draw overarching conclusions from all of those studies. Like when you take all of these studies together, what do they say?

Sarah:

And so in the 1989 meta analysis, he used 120 studies into the effectiveness of homework. And then in 2006 he covered all of the ones that may his criteria. Then between 1987 and 2003 which was about 50 so that's a lot of information to go through. And the conclusions that he drew were pretty definitive. There was definitely a positive effect of homework on student achievement. Essentially kids who do homework do better quote unquote than kids who don't. When it comes to things that we can measure like tests of knowledge, so an average student in a class in which appropriate homework was assigned would score 23 percentile points higher on those tests than the average student in a class in which homework was not assigned. And that's a lot 23% but the keywords there are appropriate and average.

Sarah:

So taking average first, all students don't experience the same effect from homework. Some benefit more, some benefit less, but on average it's a 23% improvement. Also, I think it's important to know the tests don't uncanny measure every type of learning and then appropriate. This is what Cooper said in 1989 he said "Homework is a cost effective instructional device. However, it must serve different purposes at different grades. Our expectations for its effects, especially in the short term and in earlier grades must be modest. It should be one of several approaches we use along with soccer and the Scouts to show our children that learning takes place everywhere", and lots of other research agrees with him. It shouldn't be too much of an argument really on whether homework works. It definitely works and improving some measurable student outcomes. But there were definitely some caveats in terms of how much time students should spend in what ages, how it's designed and what its purpose is, which we're definitely gonna come back to later.

Sarah:

What about you Katierose, what did you find in your research?

Katierose:

Well, um, the against wagon is mainly the biggest voice over there, um, that, and one that I enjoyed reading was Alfie Kohn and he is the author of 'The Homework Myth: Why Our Kids Get Too Much Of A Bad Thing'. And this book received a lot, or it does receive a lot of press. A lot of articles are written from the information in this book and the research that he talks about. And for him, you know, you had mentioned that homework shows benefit on things that can be measured. And for Kohn, he says, yes, we, the way, if we are going to assess students' success by the amount of information that we can cram in their heads and ask them to regurgitate, then then yes, more homework will help that. There's no doubt about it.

Katierose:

But if we actually want to know, if we measure success in a different way, if we measure success in how well students can think and how much they enjoy their learning and how much they're growing as a holistic student, then no homework doesn't necessarily have a benefit to that. And so for Alfie Kohn, as I read more and more about what he was saying and what he believes, it's, it's really a philosophical concern for him because he feels like homework takes away from other valuable and necessary activities for students. They're in school and they're doing academic learning for long enough and he felt like homework, um, took away time from the student and so they weren't able to do things. Having social experiences, outdoor recreation, creative activities, extra sleep free time, things that he feels are essential for students to grow and develop. He also feels that homework does not facilitate learning and foster these self-discipline skills that homework gets a lot of credit for.

Katierose:

Uh, he said that homework doesn't build character and study skills. He debunks all of that. Uh, he says it doesn't elevate test scores necessarily depending on how you're testing your students. He feels that homework just kills curiosity, which is connected to meaningful learning. It's a burden on parents, it stresses kids, it causes conflict in families and it leaves less time for other activities. And that was really his big push that um, that time is so precious for our students. And how are we asking them to use their time at home, is homework what they need.

Sarah:

So we said that there's consensus, but from what we've each just said, it doesn't sound like there's consensus. You know, it sounds like Kohn really disagrees with Cooper in terms of what he believes about homework. But is this maybe because what we're really seeing here is, uh, is a divide in what they both believe about what is valuable in education and what kind of learning is valuable?

Sarah:

'Cause that's philosophically what it comes down to is that Cooper is saying when if what you care about is measuring outcomes and attainment and achievement homework is good for that. It helps. But what it sounds like is what Kohn is saying is sure, but that shouldn't be what we care about.

Katierose:

Yes. Yes I would agree. I would agree. And I think that's why I liked him.,

Sarah:

Yeah, for sure. I liked him too. But I do think that we live in a world where most teachers, let's say many teachers are, are faced with the reality of having to care about tests and having to care about outcomes and a world where you know, scores do matter. And so from that perspective, is there any way that we can find consensus between these two opposing camps where they may not agree with what it, what it means to learn or what it, what it means to be, to be important about learning but they can agree about if you are going to do homework, how can you do it well?

Katierose:

And I think we did find that and it all surrounded around the word "quality and purpose". And from there, um, we were able to reference Marzano & Pickering, the research-based recommendations for the classroom for homework. Um, and it really is centered around this idea of quality and purpose.

Sarah:

Okay. So Marzano and Pickering published these research based homework guidelines in 2007 in their special report, "the case for and against homework". Um, and we're going to start off just by telling you what it is that they said, what their suggestions were, and then we're going to spend, um, a good bit of time going more deeply into each of those suggestions and what they really mean for what you can do in the classroom. So the first one that they say is to design homework to maximize the chances that students will complete it, which kind of seems like a no brainer, but for example, ensure that homework is at the appropriate level of difficulty. Students should be able to complete homework assignments independently with relatively high success rates, but they should still find the assignments challenging enough to be interesting.

Katierose:

Number two. Number two: involve parents in appropriate ways. And this could be lots of different things as: a sounding board for students, summarizing what they've done that day. But within that it's really important that parents do not need to act as the teacher and they don't need to police the student's homework. Um, but it's more that the parent is there to help facilitate the process. Um, there should be clear guidelines for parents and teachers should expect the parents should not expect the parents to act as experts in regards to the content. It's more parents should be asking questions for clarify and summarizing purposes.

Sarah:

Three is it's really important to carefully monitor the amount of homework that's assigned so that it is appropriate to the student's age levels and doesn't take too much time away from other home activities. This is where we see Cooper and Kohn coming together. In the first point there is student age. The older the child, the greater effect. So for elementary and primary kids really under grade four, it's more about study habits. Um, but reading is always good. Um, and with older children, that's when there starts to be real gains and the test scores have risen as a result of homework. But time spent is really important. So five to 10 minutes per subject for grade four up to grade four up to a maximum of 1.5 to two hours per night for 12th grade and anything over two hours per night is it becomes destructive to learning and actually lowers student learning and Cooper in 2007 suggested that research findings support the apparently common 10 minute rule, which I have never heard of. But apparently it's very common which states that all daily homework assignments combined to take about as long to complete as 10 minutes multiplied by the student's grade level. And now, even though I'm not an accountant like Katierose, for example, grade four, that would be 40 minutes.

Sarah:

He added that at when required reading is included as a type of homework. The 10 minute rule might be increased to 15 minutes because everybody agrees that reading is just good for you.

Katierose:

And number four which is really I feel the most important, assign purposeful homework and in order to do that the homework needs to be instructionally driven, not policy driven. That doesn't mean that there can't be a homework policy, but do you need to be really mindful that when you're writing a policy that it leaves room for teachers to use their expertise to make sure that the homework is instructionally driven and it has purpose. Those are the research based homework guidelines and we just want to go into those now in more details. The rest of this episode is going to be about giving you some ideas for how to implement those, those guidelines in your teaching and in your classroom and I want to remind teachers that you're not going to be able to revamp your homework procedures all in one day and provide individual goals for all your students, but take one small piece, maybe one set of students and start trialing something that then you can work, work out the bumps with.

Sarah:

Yeah, that's such an important point. And I completely agree and I think the best thing is just to start somewhere and I think we both agree that the most important place to start is with point 4 which is assign purposeful homework. So for me, when I was thinking about this, I came to it thinking about individual purpose versus group purpose. At the individual level, I think that we all want to individualize for our students. We all want to put the individual at the center, but sometimes I think that for teachers it can be a bit overwhelming. How would that really work, you know, in like a normal classroom. And so I was thinking that a good way to do this would be through tying it to goal setting. And so that way you involve the student in deciding what would be useful for them to work on.

Sarah:

And goal setting is something that I think that happens in a lot of classrooms anyway. And then you're using the homework to help the student to meet those goals so they have some control over what the homework is gonna be and what the purpose is. Then really for them to work on themselves. And that could be I think as structured or as freely as it seems manageable to be in terms of how old the students are and how independent they are and how you work in your classroom.

Katierose:

I think coupled with that is just the transparency between student, parent and teacher. I think too when you talk about the purposefulness of homework, it's important to think about not just the academic needs of the student but also making sure that the homework that you're assigning allows the students to have balance between social needs, play and other activities at home. Uh, supporting the conversation between student and parents at home. I think it's wonderful if you're working on a unit of, and you can send home weekly questions or short articles that the family can read together and then have a discussion about the opportunity for students to engage in a conversation with people who are of a higher intellectual level... I don't mean to say it that way, but um, uh, or who have strong feelings like you know, us as adults, we usually have very strong feelings about some topics. And I think it's really important for students to have to kind of digest information at home first with parents where they can ask those questions or they can voice their opinion and not have to feel self conscious about what, what it means in the, in the social context of a classroom. Um, and they can read in the information together and have that conversation. I think that's an excellent way for a very purposeful way to use student's time at home with parents. And I just say for the student to feel like the homework has purpose when it comes back into the classroom, it has to have value. And that may be just in students turning to each other and taking time, talking about what they did or exploring the information that they collected or working through, um, a couple problems with each other to just make sure that they have the right algorithm. But there needs to be an opportunity for students to take what they've done at home and bring it in the classroom because that's when they feel like it has value within the classroom context.

Sarah:

Well, I think that's another, another good way to do that then is when you shift from the individual perspective of purpose to the group perspective of purpose. Because that then is looking, you know, zooming out from what does the individual student need to progress, to what does the whole class need to progress. And that could be then thinking about using maybe like something like a flipped classroom model. And this is where like you had said sending home an article, this is where you take the, the front-loading portion, like the knowledge, the input, the teacher input and instead of you standing there giving it to them or asking them to read something with you, you send that home for homework and they can discuss it with their family, they can think about it themselves.

Sarah:

And then they use that really valuable time that they have with you as the teacher to move their understanding forward and unpick any misunderstandings that they may have picked up or ask the questions that they, that they had from that. And so from a kind of group purpose perspective, if you're doing that and you're sending things home that you need them to have, um, to thought about and to have looked at in order for the whole class to move forward, that's really demonstrating purpose because if the homework hasn't been done, then it is going to affect how the learning progresses in the class where they have you and you're at your most valuable in contact with the kids.

Katierose:

So no matter how purposeful the homework is, we need to be conscious of the amount that we assign to students. And I don't know, it wasn't, it was within Cooper's research I believe. Um, he talked a bit about time as well in this 10 minute rule came up, right?

Sarah:

That was Cooper, the common super common 10 minute rule that everyone totally apart from me.

Katierose:

But I bet you've been living by it because I know, cause I, I've taught with you and so, but you just didn't know it was called the 10 minutes rule.

Sarah:

If you remember back to the beginning this episode, I thought the homework was pointless. So the fact that I was assigning 10 minutes of it was, this is something of a surprise.

Katierose:

I'm sure, I'm sure. But I want to, I want to remind everyone that 10 minute rule also applies to reading. Unless you have a joyful reader and you have someone who just loves, loves, loves to read, then set them free, let the, let the library be their oyster. But for all children, even those that are struggling really try and stick to that 10 minute rule for reading as well because for them, um, yeah, it's, it's a struggle.

Katierose:

And so we need to be, we need to make sure we give them the, um, the amount of homework that will support them in developing fluency, building comprehension, um, but not, um, you know, hammering that at nail.

Sarah:

Oh yeah, for sure. And I think that, when it comes to reading, I think one of the key takeaways for teachers there should be, too, when it's homework reading, give children choice in what they read. You know, we've all had that student who is, whatever, addicted to the, the Diary of a Wimpy Kid books or something along those lines. And there may be a part of us that wonders if we shouldn't try and force them to diversify their tastes, you know, but all reading is good reading and as long as the child is enjoying it, you know, in their own free time, then I think giving them the freedom to explore, you know, graphic novels as well. Whatever it is that's gonna make them enjoy their reading time, then just go for that.

Katierose:

My question for you, my question for you, it'd be, um, you know, because my daughter being in second grade, she's required to do a lot more independent reading. And what would, what would your opinion be as far as like that you being read to a reading is there, does there needs to be a balance there? How would you, you know, because for a lot, for a lot of kids, they be, hearing a fluent reader is incredibly important as well. Um, so...

Sarah:

Well, we need to do some research on it and so we're going to have an episode on this, but my feeling is that, um, because we're talking about homework here, that, and we've said that parents shouldn't have to police and parents shouldn't be put in the position of having to kind of trudge through homework and it becoming this major stressor in the household.

Sarah:

If your daughter doesn't want to read out loud independently to you at night in her own home and making her do that is going to be like a cause of stress for her or for you, then you shouldn't do it. And you know that reading to her then will be much more valuable than not getting reading done because she's upset, you know, or getting reading done and her resenting it, you know, and feeling like, I hate reading, you know, to me that's.

Katierose:

Absolutely for sure.

Sarah:

That like that's just not a fight worth having at all.

Katierose:

No. And just so everyone knows, we've now had to move on to reader's theater because that's what she enjoys writing, reading.

Sarah:

That's great.

Katierose:

Every night is a show where it's it's words or, yeah. Um, yes and so, but outside of reading, um, as far as amount of homework goes, um, I would really encourage teachers to take a holistic view of the student when they're assigning homework. And if, um, and if you have a holistic view then whatever you're assigning, it begs that question, is it essential or is it just busywork?

Sarah:

Where I do think it's hard for, you know, secondary, middle school, high school teachers to keep an eye on the, the total homework because you know, you're one of several subjects and I think it would be really hard for teachers to necessarily sit down together every week and discuss who's going to assign what so that they can definitely keep the homework down. But I think what you've just said in terms of keeping that holistic view and asking yourself, is this really necessary? If you are all doing your best to keep your homework amounts down to what is really necessary, then hopefully that will mean that when you add it all together, it's not going to go over that two hour limit. Because we do need to remember that that is really important, that more homework is not better homework necessarily. There is a point at which that starts to become completely the opposite and do children harm.

Katierose:

Yes. And then so that even with the high school students we have to, we have to put value on that work life balance. If that's what we want for them as adults, then we need to also bring that down to the school level and making sure that the work that they are doing at home is meaningful, it's quality, it has purpose, and that they also have time for their own life and finding that balance.

Sarah:

Well, and I would suggest that it's actually even more important for these older kids because there's a ton of research out there on just how sleep-deprived teenagers today are and the huge impact that has on their health and their mental health and their ability to learn. They need to sleep. And we're already in a situation where schools don't start at the time of day that actually their bodies need, it is much too early. And so if they're going home after school and if they have any kind of activity after the dinner, you know, and they have more than two hours of homework a night, there's no way they're going to get to bed at a time that's actually going to be the right time for them physically and neurologically. And so that for me, that's another reason to really value that time that they have outside of school. They need it for their health.

Katierose:

I would agree wholeheartedly. Parents. Involving parents in appropriate ways. This for me really comes down to incredibly clear communication with parents. It's so incredibly important. Um, because homework can so easily become a burden on parents and family life due to the expectations parents have due to their own, uh, experiences with homework due to the parent's relationship with the child. So it's really important. So depending on the developmental age, of course of the, the child, um, you can consider having a really clear calendar of due dates for homework, trying to avoid homework being due after weekends and after holidays. Again putting value on free time, family time, um, and making sure that parents have access to those, to those dates. Supporting students to use their own student diaries and their own calendars to organize their homework assignments for older students is a great way to help start to build some of those more organizational skills and then parents can reference that as well to see what, what needs to happen when um, supplying students with a folder specifically for homework and this is more for the primary years but it is great when everything comes in that red folder and it's all right there and I don't have to fish around in the backpack or find the loose paper or look something up anywhere.

Katierose:

It's just all, all the information is right there in that one folder that goes back and forth to school. And of course using email or classroom based websites to keep parents up to date on what's happening in the classroom and how they can support that at home is also, I find incredibly, incredibly helpful. I think also, you know, making homework, a topic of discussion at conference time. We all meet with parents and even if it's just a small piece of that, really using that time, that face to face contact to be really clear and answer questions cause parents always have questions that I know conference time is super tight but even just a couple moments about homework I think could help support the parents. And also one thing just because I am a parent who gets homework. If you're going to assign something that requires extra effort, for instance the students to create something or we have to go out and purchase something for them to be using class, just give parents lots of time.

Katierose:

I really, for me it is so hard for me when I get the note that they need like 25 Popsicle sticks and 15 plastic bags the next day. Yeah, so just so just that piece, if you're going to assign assignments that take a bit more that you or that you want the students to have a little bit more creative power in, make sure that you're giving the appropriate amount of time for students to be able to actually think through that. Work with parents, hit up the crafting store and do it in a way that doesn't create stress at home.

Sarah:

And finally we want to be designing homework to maximize the chances that students will complete it. And really, I feel like if you've done the three points prior to this or you're at least thinking about them, then this point kind of takes care of itself. So differentiate for your homework, the way you differentiate for your teaching. You know, differentiation is so, so important in everything that we do.

Katierose:

I have to say just from, you know, just in my role of working with teachers, sometimes we'll say the word differentiation and I actually see teachers like cringe, um, because it just - differentiation - means like lots and lots and lots of work. And I want to reiterate that differentiation does not mean 24 different assignments for homework. There are lots of ways to differentiate what you do in the classroom. There are lots of ways to differentiate for homework that don't involve many different tasks for all the students. You can differentiate on the quantity that's given. You can consider low threshold, high ceiling problems, which support and challenge whole classes of students. You can think about the same task, but you may be using different topics for different kids depending on the availability of resources. And you can also have students work on the same topics but differ group roles of how they address that topic. Uh, and so I don't want teachers to think that if you differentiate homework, everybody's got to have something different, which I know, you know, but I think it's good to hear.

Sarah:

Sure. And I think that also, when you think about differentiation, I think most teachers have got structures in place to help make differentiation as manageable as possible in their classroom. You know, and I think that those structures can then just roll over into how you're doing your homework. You know? If we can differentiate in that way in a manageable way during the day, then we can also do it. I think for homework too. But you know, it has to be manageable for you. There's no point setting up a system if you're not going to be able to keep on top of it on a weekly basis and don't go for something that's so completely elaborate that you won't be able to manage it. It has to be sustainable.

Katierose:

Absolutely. And until you find that piece of making it manageable, while also, while making it purposeful for the student, then let the default be no homework. If you can do that and give yourself that time and that space and give the students that time in that space so that way you can create a system, a homework system that does provide students with an opportunity to extend their learning at home. For most of us, there's, there's no getting away from homework and it's something that we have to do. Then we want you to take home the message that homework should be needs to be manageable for you and the student. It needs to be appropriate and it needs to have purpose.

Katierose:

So to paraphrase Alfie Kohn, if it's worth assigning, it's worth designing with students in mind.

Sarah:

Well that's it from us for this episode, but you can read more about the research we featured today on the blog post for this episode. Along with a bunch of links for a range of other academic and other sources. You'll even find a downloadable resource to use in your meetings and conversations about homework at school with all the evidence based recommendations for homework and how to put them into practice.

Katierose:

So your homework is to check out our next episode, which is a special one. We are joined by Guy Claxton, education and cognitive science professor and researcher and author of more than 30 books, including the most recent and fantastic series on the learning power approach. We will be chatting with guy about how education research is done, how research findings make their way or not into our classrooms, and his top tips for teachers who want to use education research in how they teach. Goodbye from us and we will see you next time when we bring more education research to you and your classroom.

Sarah:

If you've enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing to keep up to date with our news, upcoming episodes, and more. Follow us on Twitter, or like our Facebook page edyou podcast. You can also continue the conversation, share your thoughts, ask a question, or connect with likeminded teachers by joining our Facebook group. To learn even more about the research behind today's episode, visit our website edyoupodcast.com. Thank you for listening and we'll see you again next time when we bring more education research to you and your classroom.

JANUARY 31, 2020

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